Mike’s Doc Blog

Thanks Chuck for the comment and the post over at The Finance Journey. I try not to let this blog be about the politics of distance education or the University of Phoenix. Rather I use it to document my own journey. However, I would like to volley some of the ideas Chuck pointed out.

In Chuck’s comment to the original post on my blog, he wrote:

I was basing my “top” schools on the ones in the 2 most popular sources – BusinessWeek and US News & World Reports

Take note that large schools are backing away from this ranking, a sign that something is amiss in the publications treatment of the schools or research.

I commented on my own HR survey, done several years ago in response to my own concerns and questions on the validity of a UOP degree. I wrote:

In speaking with many HR professionals about a University of Phoenix degree, because I had similar reservations when I started my Master’s (now in my doctoral journey), the comments included:

• I don’t even read the school’s name
• University of Phoenix is a fine school
• I prefer distance learning, it shows me the dedication of the worker to work and study full time
• University of Phoenix has proven itself

Chuck responded:

First off, I find it preposterous that a good HR employee would not even be thorough even to look at the schools name but I guess I have nothing to back that up with.

I should clarify my thought here. It is more a commentary that HR pros don’t delve deeply into the school unless there is some red flag. Rather, an HR person cares that you have a degree and exhibit the skills commensurate with that degree. It is more likely that the response meant, I don’t look beyond the name of the school into the details of the school. The Vault Study Chuck cites (see below) also captures the essence of this point. From the selected quotes in the same study:

“As a Corporate Recruiter, I found that name branding means little when you are trying to find qualified candidates. Therefore, as long as they have the degree and experience, they are qualified.”

Chuck also wrote:

A Vault Survey [link provided here, not in The Finance Journey] of HR professionals found that “37% of those surveyed believe that an online graduate school degree is as credible as an offline degree, while 54% said that it was not as credible, but was acceptable. Another 9% said that an online graduate school degree was not credible and unacceptable”. So that is 63% of employers who think an online degree is not as good, and even some who will not hire you if you have one. A pretty staggering number.

First, go and read the full report, the excerpt quoted here does not capture the full jist of the article. While Chuck’s point is supported, the article points out many aspects of online education missed in this outtake.

Second, agreed that the number is staggering. I found several studies showing contrary numbers. According to a Diverse: Issues in Higher Education cites a Eduventures‘ study that polled 505 employers and found that 62% looked favorably on online degrees. Chuck did his own survey of two search firms:

I decided to find the beat in the local area, so I called 2 staffing firms in the region to find out their take on the subject – Adecco and Keane. They both told me that while nearly every local business will consider an online degree, most do not look as favorable on it as a degree from an offline local university. This to me confirms the study results in my specific area.

In response, I called 2 Adecco offices in my local area and asked the question, “Are online degrees looked upon less, the same, or more favorable than traditional degrees?” I had to provide examples of “online degrees” and I provided the names of 3 major online schools

• Capella University
• University of Phoenix
• Walden University

Both offices responded that online degrees are viewed the same [as brick & mortar degrees]. This is something that I run across a lot in my work. The issue is more likely non-local vs. local. I live in a town that have at least 13 major schools, some with regional or national renowned MBA programs. People ask me why I wouldn’t go locally, not why I go online. Others inform me they would rather go locally than online (noting that online is not local or tougher to do). Still businesses tend to offer that they like the local schools because they are local, not because they are offline.

My point is that there is always going to be information to both sides of the issue. Consulting industry journals, such as HR Magazine from the Society of Human Resource Management, will show greater acceptance of online degrees. In addition to the article I pointed out in the previous post, HR Magazine discusses the need for HR professionals to develop a technology capacity and specifically indicates online degree programs as part of the reason in there April 2006 issue: (no link, I pulled the article from my library resource)

Perhaps for this reason, more employers are making use of online education. Some higher education analysts believe that one of the main reasons behind the growing popularity of online education is the support it receives from employers.

Additionally, in September 2005, ASTD partnered with Capella University and published a report titled, “Is Online Higher Education Right for Corporate Learning?”

I’ve attached the document here. is-online-higher-education-right-for-corporate-learning.pdf

A total of 151 learning executives responded to 12 questions concerning online higher education, and four demographic questions. Online higher education was defined as educational opportunities including degree and training programs provided by accredited colleges and universities, delivered either entirely or partially, via the Internet.

Among the key findings: A vast majority of respondents see continued growth in their organizations for online learning and, nearly half perceive an online education equally as valuable as one from a traditional land-based degree program

More than four out of five survey respondents (81 percent) believe the role of online higher education will increase or at least stay the same in their companies within the next two to three years. Only 2 percent believe it will decline.

It is not all pro-online. And much to Chuck’s point about perception of online degrees:

When asked about the perceived value within their organizations of a degree obtained from an online higher education program, slightly more than half of the respondents (51 percent) believe that it is less valuable than one from a traditional land-based degree program. Conversely, 49 percent believe a degree from an online provider is equally valuable or almost as valuable as one from a traditional program.

Still this is a far cry from the 63% reported in Chuck’s comments on the vault study:

A Vault Survey of HR professionals found that “37% of those surveyed believe that an online graduate school degree is as credible as an offline degree, while 54% said that it was not as credible, but was acceptable. Another 9% said that an online graduate school degree was not credible and unacceptable”. So that is 63% of employers who think an online degree is not as good, and even some who will not hire you if you have one. A pretty staggering number.

Chuck brings up some bad press given to the University of Phoenix by Intel.

The program is looked so lowly upon by some large employers such as Intel that they will not even pay for your education there.

This, again, is part of the story; it is not fairly represented. Intel has withdrawn support of institutions that are only regionally accredited and lack the certification from AACSB. AACSB is a conglomerate of educational institutions that sets its own standards for business and accounting programs. It is very popular and very traditional. University of Phoenix is a non-traditional institution and therefore becomes a square peg in a round hole.

Also, if you read the full article from The Arizona Republic you will see a different picture all together. Intel, it appears, has an attrition problem due to the lack of upward mobility for new graduates. So, the grads take their degree and leave. This means that Intel is losing ROI on the tuition spend and needs to control costs there. Thus, a move to curb spending by setting another hurdle for employees to jump.

Chuck brings up some good points about traditional, brick and mortar, schools not having a completely online program or at least naming it something like Executive MBA. This is true that many schools have not figured out to exclude or feel it necessary  to include physical residencies components. In UOP, itself, the doctoral program requires them annually. If the name of the degree as Executive MBA is offputting, then I suggest using the real name of the degree, Masters of Business Administration. The executive/professional/part-time tags are merely branding and offer no value or detraction from the degree itself.

Chuck also points out the common perceptions of going to school alone in a distance program:

You miss out on the networking aspect of the education which can be looked down upon for higher positions.

My own experience is that my network is larger and more robust than it was when I was in a traditional program that was chosen for the networking/good ol’ boy network the school was a part of regionally. I have members of my network that are high ranking government officials, military commanders and senior executive NCO’s. My network includes decision makers of large organizations and companies, as well as all around great people. Moreover, I know people around the world including those in Korea, Nepal, Japan, Africa, and Europe. Something a regional or local school cannot provide.

University of Phoenix can do better, all online programs can, at networking students. I make it my business to network. Simply going to a school doesn’t afford a network, you need to make it work. I would like to see UOP include some social/professional networking with current students and alumni. It is something I am vocal about and hope to see a change very soon.

Chuck concludes:

I agree that University of Phoenix is not a degree mill. It is a regionally accredited school (though not accredited by the AACSB) and from what I have seen offers a real education with real coursework and teachers, not a mail in degree. My is point not that you will not get a good education out of the program, but rather your career prospects afterwards could be hampered.

I am glad he knows that UOP is not a fly-by-night program. I want to add my comments on accreditation here.

Accreditation comes from the Higher Learning Commission of the U.S. Department of Education and is administered through regional associations. The difference is subtle but present. UOP is regionally accredited; a process that should not be taken lightly.

Accrediting schools is serious business and the amount of standards an institution must adhere to and uphold are staggering. Not to mention, UOP being the largest school in North America is constantly under scrutiny simply to maintain the standards. Make no mistake, if the degree were invalid or junk, the school would be shut down in a flash.

Perception is reality, that is a fact of life. Chuck’s concerns are commonplace and warranted. I was a skeptic and now a believer, I did my homework and made a decision I am proud of making. Each day I reap the sewn seeds of my University of Phoenix degree.

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