Comments on: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/ A doctoral learner's journey Mon, 12 Jul 2010 23:59:18 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0 By: Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » 2 weeks to RES/722, Again! http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11911 Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » 2 weeks to RES/722, Again! Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:52:01 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11911 [...] Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the Schedule Change [...] [...] Lies, Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the Schedule Change [...]

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]]> By: Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Fill Out this Survey… http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11909 Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Fill Out this Survey… Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:43:15 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11909 [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...] [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...]

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]]> By: Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Happy http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11908 Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Happy Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:42:37 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11908 [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...] [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...]

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]]> By: Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Disappointed http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11907 Mike’s Doc Blog » Blog Archive » Disappointed Thu, 13 Sep 2007 12:42:05 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11907 [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...] [...] Damn Lies and Statistics Disappointed Happy Fill Out This Survey… Navigating the ScheduleChange [...]

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]]> By: Joel http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11844 Joel Fri, 24 Aug 2007 13:19:45 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11844 I deal with student testing scores. In one area there was a significant drop the the scores of white students. Jokingly I said, "Don't consider it a drop in their scores, consider it a decrease in the performance gap between them and their black counterparts." Words, words, words...numbers, numbers, numbers. It's all about spin. I deal with student testing scores. In one area there was a significant drop the the scores of white students. Jokingly I said, “Don’t consider it a drop in their scores, consider it a decrease in the performance gap between them and their black counterparts.”

Words, words, words…numbers, numbers, numbers. It’s all about spin.

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]]> By: Foley http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11841 Foley Thu, 23 Aug 2007 00:27:11 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11841 <p>I took a statistics in college. It should be renamed "How to Lie and Make it Believable Using Numbers." The problem is that the outcome depends on the question. The person asking the question can keep changing the language of the question until he gets the answer he desires. Political polls are a prime example of this.</p> <p>But the biggest example of statistical fraud is teachers who use the bell curve to grade tests. I had a real idiot of teacher in college who gave bad tests. He frequently put items on the test that were never a part of the class lessons. His tests were difficult to say the least. There was always two or three question on a test no one could answer. But he was able to cover himself by using the bell curve to grade. One test was so hard. It was a 40 question test. Believe it or not. Thanks to the curve. That getting 6 questions right gave you a C. Can you imagine that you only needed to answer 15% right to get a C? So in the terms of actual knowledge most of the class really failed. Sad but true. This was tenured teacher so the class was basically S.O.L. </p> <p>I just think that statistics should be issued with a warning label. Basically, let the buyer beware</p> I took a statistics in college. It should be renamed “How to Lie and Make it Believable Using Numbers.” The problem is that the outcome depends on the question. The person asking the question can keep changing the language of the question until he gets the answer he desires. Political polls are a prime example of this.

But the biggest example of statistical fraud is teachers who use the bell curve to grade tests. I had a real idiot of teacher in college who gave bad tests. He frequently put items on the test that were never a part of the class lessons. His tests were difficult to say the least. There was always two or three question on a test no one could answer. But he was able to cover himself by using the bell curve to grade. One test was so hard. It was a 40 question test. Believe it or not. Thanks to the curve. That getting 6 questions right gave you a C. Can you imagine that you only needed to answer 15% right to get a C? So in the terms of actual knowledge most of the class really failed. Sad but true. This was tenured teacher so the class was basically S.O.L.

I just think that statistics should be issued with a warning label. Basically, let the buyer beware

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]]> By: mike http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11839 mike Wed, 22 Aug 2007 11:49:58 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11839 I'll have to Google the equation and see if I can find it. I used to agree that numbers are facts. Unfortunately that is not always the case. I consider marketing the culprit in modern manipulation of numbers. If 30% of people like it then 70% of people consider similar products. The Easterbrook quote is my favorite too. I have it posted in my office as a reminder to be honest in my research and unbiased about what I discover. I’ll have to Google the equation and see if I can find it. I used to agree that numbers are facts. Unfortunately that is not always the case. I consider marketing the culprit in modern manipulation of numbers. If 30% of people like it then 70% of people consider similar products.

The Easterbrook quote is my favorite too. I have it posted in my office as a reminder to be honest in my research and unbiased about what I discover.

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]]> By: Michael Wales http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/comment-page-1/#comment-11836 Michael Wales Tue, 21 Aug 2007 18:15:04 +0000 http://mikeberta.us/blog/2007/08/21/lies-damn-lies-and-statistics/#comment-11836 I love the Gregg Easterbrook quote. I remember once, when I was around the 7th grade, quoting a statistic to my dad (I read it in a magazine or something). It was a ridiculous stat and my dad said you can make numbers say anything you want - being a math/science nerd I defied him, "No, you can't numbers are numbers. It's the one truth." At this time I was in Algebra, maybe Trig, so I had a pretty firm grasp of math. My dad sat me down with a piece of paper and wrote "2 + 2" across the top. "Of course, the answer is 4," I say. He then proceeded to run through about 15-20 steps and at the end, 2 + 2 = 5. I kept that paper until my 10th grade year - trying to find where he tricked me and error'd in his math. I gave it to teachers, friends, anyone that could help. In the end, my dad was right. 2 + 2 did equal 5. Man, I wish I still had that paper around. I'll have to ask him to redo it sometime. I love the Gregg Easterbrook quote.

I remember once, when I was around the 7th grade, quoting a statistic to my dad (I read it in a magazine or something). It was a ridiculous stat and my dad said you can make numbers say anything you want – being a math/science nerd I defied him, “No, you can’t numbers are numbers. It’s the one truth.”

At this time I was in Algebra, maybe Trig, so I had a pretty firm grasp of math. My dad sat me down with a piece of paper and wrote “2 + 2″ across the top. “Of course, the answer is 4,” I say. He then proceeded to run through about 15-20 steps and at the end, 2 + 2 = 5.

I kept that paper until my 10th grade year – trying to find where he tricked me and error’d in his math. I gave it to teachers, friends, anyone that could help.

In the end, my dad was right. 2 + 2 did equal 5.

Man, I wish I still had that paper around. I’ll have to ask him to redo it sometime.

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